The arrival of the National Guard had done little to turn the tide at Wilmer Creek, where an unrelenting onslaught by the undead had pitched friend against friend, and neighbour against reanimated neighbour in a frenetic battle for control of the town. But even as the military struggled to reassure citizens that the situation was under control, a fresh offensive broke through the downtown blockade and routed the defense forces. It was time to evacuate.Note: this Chinese podcast is all about prepositions in Chinese. Now since it's a bit hard to make this sort of thing sound sexy all by itself, just imagine yourself on a yacht in the Mediterranean surrounded by twenty or so of the most attractive linguists you can picture, all of whom are desperate for factually accurate information about Chinese grammar. Now picture yourself casually dropping the word "coverb" into this volatile mix and knowing what it means....
pefferie
said on October 6, 2011
I listened twice, but still cannot get the point. "If you've listened to our previous podcasts, you know that in Chinese, prepositions go before verbs. So here we have 给 going in front of the verb." So, what is the new info? That 给 is acting as a preposition and we might be erroneously thinking it is a verb?I am trying hard not to be a smartass here, but this lesson's grammar point is somewhat opaque. Maybe if you contrasted the construction with other prepositions or with 给's role as a verb or with constructions like 买东西给她, the point would have been somewhat more obvious.
crusty_138
said on October 7, 2011
Plants vs Zombies in Chinese!!!!!!! I must see this
trevelyan
said on October 7, 2011
@pefferie,Yeah, exactly. We're just remphasizing using 给 as a specific example instead of talking about prepositions/coverbs in general.--david
Xiao Hu
said on October 7, 2011
@pefferie, No need to be a smart-ass. ;)I think one of the hardest concepts for westerners to grasp about the Chinese language is that words can take on so many different roles in a sentence, dependent on word order and combinations. On a personal level, the different uses of 给, EG: functioning in the role of "to" or "for", was one of the most difficult to wrap my head around.Since, as David has pointed out on a number of occasions, linguists have mistakenly labeled Chinese words and parts of speech with western monikers, whereas, they should have created a whole new set of terms to accurately explain Chinese parts of speech, for example, "coverb". I like how David and company have gone out of their way to reiterate the concept of "coverb" to help us better understand how to approach Chinese parts of speech. In other words, in a completely new way. and to separate the Chinese language and its grammar from that of all western languages.
MoNigeria
said on October 8, 2011
给我烤个脑花！ 呵 呵 呵
pefferie
said on October 8, 2011
@trevelyan,Thanks for the explanation. 给 as a "preposition" is so common even in entry-level dialogs (给我来一瓶可乐, 给我打电话 and of course, Echo's 给我写信 at the end of every podcast) that I was not expecting to see it introduced as something new.
pefferie
said on October 8, 2011
@Xiao Hu, Popup Chinese is performing a balancing act between linguistic rigor and keeping listeners in their comfort zone. As a result, I got lost in this podcast as to what the intended meaning was.As to whether use western parts of speech for Chinese grammar, it can be argued either way as long as you stay consistent. There is nothing wrong with saying that in Chinese a verb can act as a preposition as long as you clearly state the rules. It goes without saying that a language concept does not work exactly alike in two languages. For example, Russian does not use copulas (e.g. "I man" or "Flower pretty" would be full sentences, Chinese has the copula 是 in the first case, but not in the second, English and French require the copula in both cases). English can use the copula "have" in a sentence like "The bathtub has a cockroach in it", while French cannot. However, it is still helpful to use the same word for "copula" in all the languages.In another example, English tense "Present Perfect" is somewhat similar to the French "Passé composé" (Composed Past) in that they are composed of the verb "to have" in present tense + past participle. Their usage, although similar, differs in quite a few situations. However, the naming difference does not prevent speakers from using calques from their mother tongue in the other language. At all.Whether introducing a new part of speech or showing how an English part of speech behaves differently in Chinese, it helps to contrast its usage with other patterns the student is already familiar with. Showing similarities and dissimilarities allows the brain to anchor the concept.This particular podcast did not do it.Another thing that made me cringe is stating that "prepositions go in front of verbs". Prepositions go in front of (给我) or behind (桌子上) _nouns_. Prepositional _phrases_ usually go in front of verbs, but then for some extremely common verbs (to live and to go, for example), it is not even the case.All of this is my personal opinion and experience anyway, and I do not pretend to hold the universal truth.
trevelyan
said on October 8, 2011
@pefferie,Fair enough. We look at each dialogue and try to figure out what is useful to focus on rather than write dialogues to teach specific grammar points. So not every grammar point is going to be new, especially given the number of lessons at each level.In about two months when we release the next version of the site, we'll be introducing a more structured way of answering the question of "how do I know what I don't know" so there's an alternative to random exploration of podcasts for this sort of thing. In the meantime, if you're finding a lesson repetitive, I'd suggest just skipping it.
pefferie
said on October 8, 2011
@trevelyan - no way am I skipping this lesson, lest I be caught unawares by the undead. I want to die prepared!
richard
said on October 8, 2011
san huoqiangshou / Xiao Hu,so, the role of 'gei' can also be 'to' besides 'give and for"as in : she also should apoligize to me do i say : ta ye yinggai gei wo daoqian
Xiao Hu
said on October 9, 2011
@Richard,Actually, Pefferie's above example is perfect. 给我写信 Gei3 Wo3 Xie3 Xin4, EG: write to me.
richard
said on October 9, 2011
@Echo, is this correct?jinkuai gei wo zhidao (meaning : let me know as soon as possible)is my above sentence correct?
Xiao Hu
said on October 10, 2011
@Richard,I think in this situation it's better to say, 通知 Tong1 Zhi1, meaning "inform"。 When we use Chinese to talk about letting someone know some information we usually use 通知.
Absolute Beginners
said on October 10, 2011
@Richard,We don't really say "gei3 wo3 zhi1dao4". You can say "rang4 wo3 zhi1dao4", and it's just like English "let me know".--Echoecho@popupchinese.com
Absolute Beginners
said on October 10, 2011
@MoNigeria,Lololololol... I can't stop laughing at your 脑花!--Echoecho@popupchinese.com
pefferie
said on October 10, 2011
@MoNigeria,I'm not getting it :-(Would you mind explaining what this means?
Echo
said on October 11, 2011
@pefferie,Haha, it means "give me a brain 串儿".--Echoecho@popupchinese.com
lazer85
said on November 7, 2011
I tried using lines from this dialogue with 3 Chinese friends for no other reason than seeing their reaction. Not one of them knew what 僵尸 was even when written down. I checked a few dictionaries and half of them had it in there so I know you aren't messing with me. Could it really be that Zombi's, like every western musician other than The Eagles and Lady Gaga, are outside the realm of public knowledge in China?
trevelyan
said on November 7, 2011
@lazer85,We're both 无语. Where are you in China? Pretty much everyone we know is aware of zombies, although they're mostly well known because of the Plants versus Zombies craze on Renren these days.--david
lazer85
said on November 7, 2011
Haha I'm in Japan. 2 Chinese friends have lived here for 2 or 3 years. The other one is from Shanghai but has lived in Hong Kong for 4 years (all mid 20's).... It didn't surprise me much, when I stayed in Xian and Chengdu for a few weeks I think I met 5 people who had a vague if any understanding of who the Beatles were. No one knew what Bosa nova was (reasonable) but when I showed it to one guy he said "It's like rock!!!" (unreasonable). Since that trip I try to keep my cultural references down to a minimum when talking to most Chinese friends.
fabcorb66
said on November 19, 2011
Well, I'd love to practice my Chinese by playing games, Could you please tell me how I can do that?
